<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1388</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/23/99 2:28:24 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 23 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1388<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: old 15mm Traveller mini's by Citadel<BR>
Re: Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
Re: adventure just waiting for the writing...<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
3d imperium<BR>
OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
Re: Revolutions (was: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery)<BR>
Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
Ming the Merciless (was MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!)<BR>
Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
Re Loans and Indentures<BR>
Re: Galactic<BR>
Re: Virus?<BR>
Re: Gas Giants in close orbits<BR>
Rimward Survey Group 45-A37/b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
Re: Imperial culture<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Rimward Survey Group 45-A37/b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:34:21 +0100<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: old 15mm Traveller mini's by Citadel<BR>
<BR>
At 22:24 22.11.99 , you wrote:<BR>
>   For those who are interested, this most excellent site for all things<BR>
>lead now has the catalog photos and UK box art upn their site:<BR>
><BR>
>         http://www.voodoostudios.com/Legends/cittrav/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, the picture quality is appalingly bad.<BR>
Couldnt anyone who has these minis (painted or unpainted) make some photos<BR>
that i could put up on my site?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:45:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
I agree.<BR>
<BR>
(I realize that the list policies frown on doing this, but since everyone<BR>
else seems to cheerfully ignore the policies when they *really* feel like<BR>
it, I will also.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: <twhitman@nextera.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 10:29 AM<BR>
Subject: Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Dennis Belanger on 11/23/99 01:25 PM<BR>
> ---------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Dennis Belanger<BR>
> 11/23/99 09:55 AM<BR>
><BR>
> To:   traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> cc:<BR>
> Subject:  OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
><BR>
> Jeesshhhh!!!<BR>
><BR>
>      Where do I begin to defend what I said here?<BR>
><BR>
>      The USA was founded on an individuals right to life, liberty, and the<BR>
> pursuit of happiness. These basic elements are what is needed to sustain a<BR>
free<BR>
> democratic and CAPITALISTIC  society. Without a doubt, the most successful<BR>
one<BR>
> yet. By what measurement? The only yardstick that matters . . . . . .<BR>
LIFE.<BR>
><BR>
>      Over the past 200+ years, the USA has drawn to it people  who cared<BR>
for<BR>
> their own welfare first and the fruits of their mind and body a close<BR>
second.<BR>
> The net result of this freedom of mind and body is the most<BR>
technologically<BR>
> advanced, educated and well fed nation in the world. If the will of these<BR>
free<BR>
> producing people is to explore space, then that will happen in spades.<BR>
While<BR>
> some oppressive nations are trying to figure out how to keep it's populace<BR>
from<BR>
> fighting over the scraps it "gives" them, the free producing nation will<BR>
be<BR>
> spreading it's seeds to the stars. Human life will continue because<BR>
individuals<BR>
> chose it, not because a government demanded it.<BR>
><BR>
>       I do not deny the contributions of non-US citizens to space<BR>
exploration.<BR>
> Remember where most of those individuals go to do their work and get<BR>
fairly<BR>
> compensated for it. I do refuse to celebrate the successes of<BR>
dictatorships or<BR>
> socialists. They will plant a flag on alien soil and exalt the sacrifices<BR>
of<BR>
> those who got them there.<BR>
><BR>
>      I want to plant a flag on alien soil exalt the accomplishments of<BR>
free will<BR>
> and enterprise.<BR>
><BR>
> I will speak no further about this on the list . . . . . I am warmly<BR>
welcomed as<BR>
> a gammer and for that I am thankful. You folks are the most scientifically<BR>
> stimulating group I know.<BR>
><BR>
> I will keep my ideology to myself from now on.<BR>
><BR>
> Dennis<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:07:56 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin writes:<BR>
> Hey, don't destroy the planet, destroy the star!  Use a star trigger<BR>
> (AM:8, Darrians), big disintegrator weapon (various MT sources) or fusion<BR>
> catalyst (recent Nuke Damper discussion) to cause an instability there and<BR>
> BOOM, a bad day for everything in the system!  <BR>
<BR>
Given standard Traveller technology, a star trigger probably _is_ a fusion catalyst.  There's a bad technobabble explanation in GT: BtC, but that can reasonably be ignored.<BR>
> <BR>
> Planets, as others have pointed out, are largely stable.  You can wipe out<BR>
> all life on the planet easily enough, but actually blasting it into peices<BR>
> is damn tough.  Accepting the previously given figure of 10^32 Joules (was<BR>
> that Anthony Jackson?  Where did you get that?), you could smack a .1 C<BR>
<BR>
You can do it by integrating escape energies for the planet (which I did long ago) or approximate it by multiplying together escape energy (6e+7 J/kg) and mass (6e+24 kg) and applying a fudge factor because the inside needs less energy to escape, but for the current discussion I was just relying on a discussion of this which is left over from the GURPSnet archives: http://gurpsnet.sjgames.com/Archive/Space/planetbust2<BR>
<BR>
> rock into the world, but it would require a mass of around 10^17 kg. <BR>
> That's on the order of 10^14 m^3!  Hmm, actually, a cube 50 km on a side<BR>
> would almost do it. <BR>
> <BR>
> My math, feel free to correct: <BR>
> (5E4 m)^3 = 1.25E14 m^3  (rock's volume)<BR>
> 1.25E14 m^3 * 5 tons/m^3 = 6.25E14 tons (rock's mass)<BR>
> .5 * (6.24E14) * (3E7)^2 = 2.81E29 Joules (rock's KE at .1 C)<BR>
> <BR>
> Which is a little low for obliteration, but good enough for a terror<BR>
> effect, I think :-). Of course, the mass gets much lower with higher<BR>
> velocities.  How does the destruction energy change with planetary<BR>
> diameter?<BR>
<BR>
4th order in diameter, for gravitational binding forces.  You'll start having to worry about non-gravitational binding forces below a few hundred kilometers, though.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, a thought just occurred to me.  What about peaceful use of near-c<BR>
> rocks?  What if you had a world-sized object whose orbit was decaying such<BR>
> that it posed a threat to another, inhabitted world?  Total obliteration<BR>
> wouldn't be necessary, of course, but a spectacular "nudge" with a near-c<BR>
> rock would be one way of dealing with it.  Wait, nope, if you can generate<BR>
> that much thrust, why not just apply it to the world itself?  Or would you<BR>
> get additional benefits from the impact...?  Just thinking out loud...<BR>
<BR>
You'd generally be better off just directly pushing the world about.<BR>
> <BR>
> Charles C.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:10:23 +0000<BR>
From: iSteve <iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: adventure just waiting for the writing...<BR>
<BR>
Steve Lieb wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> http://www.sea.freedomship.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
> right in the neighborhood of 30 million cbm = what, about a 2.1m ton Trav<BR>
> ship?<BR>
> 170 x 3700 hp diesel engines. (471 megawatts) [100 for propulsion, 70 for<BR>
> ship power]<BR>
> 115,000 maximum passengers.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
If anyone is writing this up as adventure, I thoroughly recommend a read of<BR>
the novel "Consider Phlebas" by Iain M Banks, esp. the chapters dealing with<BR>
the Megaships of Vavatch.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:12:26 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm, a thought just occurred to me.  What about peaceful use of near-c<BR>
> rocks?  What if you had a world-sized object whose orbit was decaying such<BR>
> that it posed a threat to another, inhabitted world? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Naaah, for that you have to use smart bombs.<BR>
<BR>
Just don't teach 'em phenomenology....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:32:15 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Lieb <steve@necadon.com><BR>
Subject: 3d imperium<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone ever tried even somewhat successfully to 3-dimensionalize an<BR>
otherwise-standard CT Imperium?<BR>
That was always one of the things that bugged me - I'm constantly reminded<BR>
that it's a game.<BR>
Why I loved Trav2300, among other reasons.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:55:24 -0500<BR>
From: dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com<BR>
Subject: OFF TOPIC (OT): Taikonauts!<BR>
<BR>
Jeesshhhh!!!<BR>
<BR>
     Where do I begin to defend what I said here?<BR>
<BR>
     The USA was founded on an individuals right to life, liberty, and the<BR>
pursuit of happiness. These basic elements are what is needed to sustain a free<BR>
democratic and CAPITALISTIC  society. Without a doubt, the most successful one<BR>
yet. By what measurement? The only yardstick that matters . . . . . . LIFE.<BR>
<BR>
     Over the past 200+ years, the USA has drawn to it people  who cared for<BR>
their own welfare first and the fruits of their mind and body a close second.<BR>
The net result of this freedom of mind and body is the most technologically<BR>
advanced, educated and well fed nation in the world. If the will of these free<BR>
producing people is to explore space, then that will happen in spades. While<BR>
some oppressive nations are trying to figure out how to keep it's populace from<BR>
fighting over the scraps it "gives" them, the free producing nation will be<BR>
spreading it's seeds to the stars. Human life will continue because individuals<BR>
chose it, not because a government demanded it.<BR>
<BR>
      I do not deny the contributions of non-US citizens to space exploration.<BR>
Remember where most of those individuals go to do their work and get fairly<BR>
compensated for it. I do refuse to celebrate the successes of dictatorships or<BR>
socialists. They will plant a flag on alien soil and exalt the sacrifices of<BR>
those who got them there.<BR>
<BR>
     I want to plant a flag on alien soil exalt the accomplishments of free will<BR>
and enterprise.<BR>
<BR>
I will speak no further about this on the list . . . . . I am warmly welcomed as<BR>
a gammer and for that I am thankful. You folks are the most scientifically<BR>
stimulating group I know.<BR>
<BR>
I will keep my ideology to myself from now on.<BR>
<BR>
Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:45:03 +0000<BR>
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Revolutions (was: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
> (The far off topic question:  Do we<BR>
>consider Russia 1985, and China since Deng Xiaoping to<BR>
>be bourgeois revolutions?)  <BR>
><BR>
I guess a classical Marxist, trying to explain the collapse of communism, would<BR>
say that the original revolutions in Russia and China were premature, since<BR>
they occurred in pre-industrial societies. Under communist rule, they became<BR>
more or less industrialised (less so as yet in China's case), and when the<BR>
economic system in Russia was relaxed to permit capitalism, bourgeois<BR>
structures asserted themselves as a matter of course (ie the answer is probably<BR>
yes). Taking the same view a similar thing would happen in China, when<BR>
capitalism became sufficiently mature.<BR>
<BR>
And eventually a "proper" socialist revolution would also follow, at the point<BR>
where capitalism in turn implodes (this point has yet to be demonstrated<BR>
empirically ;-))<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:53:23 -0800<BR>
From: "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 2:32 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 1:08 -0500 18/11/99, "cjbrain" <cjbrain@bigpond.com> wrote:<BR>
> > >>_101 Ballistic Flightless Birds, actually, which will feature thrown<BR>
> > >>penguins along with catapulted ostriches, dropped EMU's, hurled dodos,<BR>
and<BR>
> > >>so forth.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >What will the gearheads use to calculate the characteristics for these?<BR>
How<BR>
> >about "Feathers, Fusion & Steel"?<BR>
><BR>
> Feathers, Fishing and Swimming, v1<BR>
><BR>
How about<BR>
<BR>
Feathers, Fins and Scales, v1<BR>
<BR>
Wayne<BR>
wewart@home.com<BR>
icq22113294<BR>
http://www.members.home.net/wewart/wewart/traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Give a man fire and he is warm for the night.<BR>
Set a man on fire and he is warm all his life.<BR>
- - Terry Pratchett<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:12:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Ming the Merciless (was MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN TERROR!!)<BR>
<BR>
Ming the Merciless (was MONGO NATIONAL GUARD FLEES IN<BR>
TERROR!!)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
<BR>
>Yes! Yes! And all of us lurkers want the stats for<BR>
>Ming the Merciless!<BR>
<BR>
I'm working on them.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:57:26 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Tim MacPherson" <timac@home.com><BR>
>Subject: Which Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
>I am looking to pick up a starter set of Traveller. I used to have Traveller<BR>
>Classic ...yeeeears ago. Now there is all kinds of editions. I don't have a<BR>
>group ...so if I did play it would most likely be by PBEM. CT? GURPS?<BR>
>T:NE? T4?<BR>
<BR>
If you want to PBEM, go with CT, GT, or T4.1.<BR>
<BR>
If you're going to run, pick whichever you can get the most of.<BR>
<BR>
(Personally, I use MegaTraveller, with T4 Psionics, and a few other tweaks)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:07:54 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Loans and Indentures<BR>
<BR>
>You must have a particularly nasty mortgage...mine allows me to work<BR>
>anywhere I please, or not work, even. So long as I can come up with the<BR>
>payment each month.<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
>A loan isn't indenture by any stretch of the imagination.<BR>
><BR>
>If the bank said I had to keep working at Eneri's Widget Works until the<BR>
>mortgage was paid off, and directly attached my earnings, _then_ I'd be<BR>
>indentured.<BR>
><BR>
Hmm, when I was looking at getting a loan for a house, the application<BR>
terms were rather specific: The loan was in default if any of the following<BR>
occurred:<BR>
1) The house was not occupied by at least one of the cosignators as their<BR>
primary residence<BR>
2) Either of the cosignators lost their job and didn't find a new one in 30<BR>
days<BR>
3) any payment was more than 10 days late<BR>
<BR>
This was through a low-income housing project, but it clearly requires that<BR>
both cosignators work, and that you must reside there; failing either, you<BR>
get evicted.<BR>
<BR>
Ob trav: I can seem many ship loans having useage clauses: you have to be<BR>
engaged in making money, or else! Similar to subbies. One crew thought htey<BR>
were getting a deal when they only had to pay 10% down, until they realized<BR>
they had to spend 3 months per year on a back and forth run. The world<BR>
issuing the loans needed J2 traders to reach the main trade route, so they<BR>
subsidized type A-2's, 16 of them... at any given time, 4 are on route.<BR>
When the PC's showed up 2 days late for their "Duty", they found out about<BR>
the skip clause... Add either 1 year of run duty, pay off the ship<BR>
completely, or forfeit the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Such indentures make for interesting moral, ethical, and play-ballance<BR>
issues for a group of PC's.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:47:27 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Galactic<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:51:35 -0500 (EST), jghamrick@or.freei.net<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I've just searched a zillion Traveller sights to no avail. Can anyone <BR>
>direct me to a place where I can download GALACTIC?<BR>
<BR>
There is a link to it at Freelance Traveller:<BR>
<BR>
Information Center > Computer Connection > Traveller Programs for<BR>
DOS and Windows...<BR>
<BR>
Galactic 2.4 is the first program listed.<BR>
<BR>
Unless JimV has changed it, the direct URL is<BR>
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/Traveller/gal24.zip<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:47:20 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Virus?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/23/99 2:59:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
wombat@premier.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, the Imperium knows about these chips in 1120. . .<BR>
<BR>
    [snip]<BR>
<BR>
>  Sorry I can't provide more detailed information, but _Survival Margin_<BR>
>  is the only TNE sourcebook I own.<BR>
<BR>
That's plenty for my purposes.  Many thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:54:48 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Gas Giants in close orbits<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/23/99 6:49:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
Skaran@bigpond.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Well I dont know, any idea which system in the Solomani Rim could be used<BR>
>  to represent Tau Bootes.<BR>
>  In any case I regularly use Skycatalogue 2000 when doing systems to get<BR>
>  details for companions, mean orbital distances between stars etc.<BR>
<BR>
I've peeked at Harold Hale's work, and done a little cross-checking of my<BR>
own.  The conclusion I've drawn is that you just can't make assignments<BR>
of real-world stars to dots on the Solomani Rim map more than a few<BR>
parsecs from Sol.  Tau Bootis is out past the point where the<BR>
correspondence stops holding.<BR>
<BR>
That having been said, I *think* Tau Bootis would be rimward of Sol.  It<BR>
might actually be in Aldebaran sector. . .<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:05:26 -0600<BR>
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
Subject: Rimward Survey Group 45-A37/b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
<BR>
<secureTransmission><BR>
<BR>
To: govcom.ziru-sirka.vland.vland.province4521.45-A37b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
From: govcom.ziru-sirka.rimsurvey.45-A37b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
Re: Planetary Survey<BR>
<BR>
Survey team gamma finished decade on rimward survey of system 43288.  World<BR>
designated 42-dag of system 43288.  Original ZS survey estimates X867600-2 or X867670-2.<BR>
Examined ZS base remains in region designated 42-dag-LBR, found<BR>
no significant increase in TL (note: within STD of backwater minor races).<BR>
<BR>
Languages all mutually unintelligible: deviation from STD significant.  Presence of<BR>
vulgarized ZS dialect detected in remains of low-density low-TL data tablets used<BR>
by other (now dead) cultures for priestly, legal, historical, and literary purposes.<BR>
Custom writing systems without relationship to ZS, revolving around standard<BR>
forms (glyphs or graphs).<BR>
<BR>
Religions all derivable from typical ZS seeding from ancient to early ZS time periods.<BR>
Fertility, agricultural anxiety, and star people figure prominently.  Typical spread of<BR>
system extremes for backwater populations.  Typical patterns of asceticism, social<BR>
work, ecumenism, conservatism and inspired aggression and/or resistance.<BR>
<BR>
[attached transcript: hidden holocam interaction with native barbarian;<BR>
an example of obscurantist didactics.]<BR>
[attached transcript: hidden holocam interaction with native bureaucrat;<BR>
the failure of bureaux on 42-dag to assimilate religion.]<BR>
[attached transcript: hidden holocam interaction with native demi-shugiili<BR>
about a god coming back to life and general abeyance of physical laws.<BR>
Holocam recordings of water supertensive activity, postharvest food<BR>
multiplication, undetectable extrafermentive agent in liquid vessels, etc]<BR>
<BR>
</secureTransmission><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:40:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial culture<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Robert Eaglestone wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>> Who says Imperial culture is Western?<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>> I would expect Imperial culture in any given TU to reflect the<BR>
>>> culture or cultures that the referee comes from, modified by what<BR>
>>> historical reading the ref has done and what sort of SF the ref<BR>
>>> likes to read.  This isn't particularly logical but it makes for<BR>
>>> better gaming.<BR>
<BR>
>> Just consider the temptations for a ref who is interested in<BR>
>> Japanese culture, and is fond of Shogun and samurai movies.<BR>
<BR>
> And we don't know anyone at all like that, do we??<BR>
<BR>
Nope, I don't *know* anyone like that. What *suspiscions* I mauy have<BR>
are an entirely different matter.<BR>
<BR>
>> If I won the lottery, I'd be tempted to hire a few anthro majors and<BR>
>> dig up what's known about *all* the cultures on Earth, and see what<BR>
>> we could do in the way of trying to "grow" them into industrial<BR>
>> cultures, and then on to planet-spanning cultures, spacefaring<BR>
>> cultures, starfaring cultures, and finally to interstellar cultures.<BR>
>> It'd make for one *hell* of a sourcebook.  Probably more like a<BR>
>> *series* of sourcebooks.<BR>
<BR>
> Can I help?<BR>
<BR>
Sure. As soon as I win the lottery...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:56:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey, don't destroy the planet, destroy the star!  Use a star trigger<BR>
> (AM:8, Darrians), big disintegrator weapon (various MT sources) or fusion<BR>
> catalyst (recent Nuke Damper discussion) to cause an instability there and<BR>
> BOOM, a bad day for everything in the system!  <BR>
><BR>
> Planets, as others have pointed out, are largely stable.  You can wipe out<BR>
> all life on the planet easily enough, but actually blasting it into peices<BR>
> is damn tough.  Accepting the previously given figure of 10^32 Joules (was<BR>
> that Anthony Jackson?  Where did you get that?),<BR>
<BR>
Probably from alt.destroy.the.earth. They've been evaluating this sort<BR>
of thing for *years*. <BR>
<BR>
> Hmm, a thought just occurred to me.  What about peaceful use of near-c<BR>
> rocks?  What if you had a world-sized object whose orbit was decaying such<BR>
> that it posed a threat to another, inhabitted world?<BR>
<BR>
You've been watcvhing too many *bad* SF movies and TV shows. Orbits<BR>
don't decay all by themselves. Objects orbiting inside the upper<BR>
fringes of a planet's atmosphere lose energy and drop to a lower orbit.<BR>
Ditto for "planetismals" inside the dust cloud a system forms from. <BR>
<BR>
But it's a *very* rare thing for a planetary orbit to decay. Ditto for<BR>
orbits of natural satellites. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:06:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> I don't think so. And even if they did, I can think of several means<BR>
>> of getting the same effect *without* explosives.<BR>
><BR>
> Wouldn't dropping it from a higher height down the pipe get the same<BR>
> effect as blasting the pieces together?<BR>
<BR>
As would various non-"explosive" means of boosting it. Including, now<BR>
that I think of it, making the "bullet" fit a bit tighter in the<BR>
"barrel" and using a spark plug to ignite a fuel air mixture!<BR>
<BR>
Sheesh! An A-bomb with a *real* spark plug!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:21:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Rimward Survey Group 45-A37/b.90411-PTW.43288.42-dag<BR>
<BR>
From: Robert Eaglestone <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Holocam recordings of water supertensive activity, postharvest food<BR>
>multiplication, undetectable extrafermentive agent in liquid vessels, <BR>
<BR>
Now why'd you have to go and nearly make me spit my drink out? ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:24:47 -0600<BR>
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Which Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Tim MacPherson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I am looking to pick up a starter set of Traveller. I used to have Traveller<BR>
> Classic ...yeeeears ago. Now there is all kinds of editions. I don't have a<BR>
> group ...so if I did play it would most likely be by PBEM. CT? GURPS? T:NE?<BR>
> T4?<BR>
<BR>
Yes. Yes, to all of them. <g><BR>
<BR>
When playing in a PBEM you don't need access to a lot of mechanics,<BR>
you can depend on the GM for most of that. I have people in my<BR>
Traveller PBEM who have preferences for all the above, and I run it<BR>
very loosely with a mixture of rules. I think my players could tell<BR>
you which set I most favor, but they don't have to have that set of<BR>
rules to play, and if you asked them they'd probably tell you I jump<BR>
all over the place, rule-wise. <g> OTOH, I play in a CT PBEM and an MT<BR>
PBEM, where the rules set is pretty obvious from how the GM runs<BR>
things, so, it can vary. IAC, any Traveller rules set is fine for<BR>
playing and any setting or background that you find interesting is<BR>
fine too.<BR>
<BR>
About the various versions and all in my opinion...<BR>
<BR>
If you liked CT, and want to keep playing CT then get Marc's reprints<BR>
when they are released and use CT.  Nothing wrong with CT, then or<BR>
now.  There isn't a rule for everything so you have to make it up on<BR>
the fly, but that just means it's closer to a "freeform rpg" which are<BR>
the rage now days. <g><BR>
<BR>
If you want to dig around you can find used copies of MT, which is<BR>
good, but filled with errata.  It is similar to CT in feel, but can<BR>
quickly get complicated. I like the concept of the task system, but<BR>
not how it was implemented...but that's just me. Like most things with<BR>
MT, some people love it, some hate it. You won't know how you feel<BR>
until you try it out.<BR>
<BR>
If you liked Twilight 2000, then you'll like the TNE rules, but that<BR>
means using "other" dice, and some folks love their d6's.  The rules<BR>
don't "feel" like "real Traveller" to some people, but it does to<BR>
me...YMMV. BTW, you don't have to use the setting to use the rules,<BR>
and you don't have to use the rules to use the setting. <g><BR>
<BR>
If you like CT, but want a more streamlined game, get the main T4 book<BR>
and Marc's T4.1 extensions. Or even better, IMO, get Ken Bearden's<BR>
KBv2.0 rules for T4. Out of the box, T4 has some problems, but I still<BR>
think it had potential...again, YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
If you like GURPS already, then Gurps: Traveller is what you should<BR>
get. If you don't like GURPS, then *some* of the GT books are still<BR>
good for background. If you don't know GURPS, then get the free GURPS<BR>
lite and see if you like it.<BR>
<BR>
For setting, the CT reprints are going to be great when they make it<BR>
out. So, are the GRUPS books for the "no rebellion" timeline.  Finding<BR>
the MT and TNE settings books are harder, to be honest, and if you are<BR>
an oldtime player you might not want them anyway.<BR>
<BR>
In the final analysis it doesn't matter what Traveller you get, or<BR>
play. Just that you play....and welcome back to the game. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
  resident Traveller heretic<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1388<BR>
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